DAILY SPORT catches up with Boxing Legend, Ex Heavyweight World Champion Legend Tim Witherspoon on the 26th anniversary of the Frank Bruno fight and gives an honest overview of the state of present day boxing.
I had arranged to meet boxing legend Tim Witherspoon at 8:30pm at a pub in Surbiton. I arrived at 8-15pm, and perched up at the bar and ordered a Diet Coke. The owner spots my dictaphone and my questions for my interview and asks ‘Are you here to meet Tim?’. I reply ‘Yes’. As I offer payment for the drink he waves his hand and walks from the bar to gesture the drink is on the house. The presence of Tim is already making itself known and he has not even arrived yet.
At 8:28pm, I see the people sitting out front standing up and walking towards a car, offering their hand as each one addresses him as the ‘champ’. I still hadn’t seen his face yet, but the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as I heard him say, I’m meeting a guy for an interview, I better go and meet him. He walks over and gives me a very hearty handshake, with the other hand on my shoulder as if welcoming me to his own house. The two time ex Heavyweight World Champion Tim Witherspoon had arrived.
PZ: Tim –tell us about your day.
TW: I got up early this morning and did a run from Surbiton to Kingston and back, then I went to the YMCA and did another hour of working out. Took my daughter home and fed her after that and then went straight to another boxing gym as I’m doing an exhibition in Redditch raising money for charity, cancer in particular. So I’m getting in a little bit of shape as the guy I’m up against is probably going to try and make this like a real fight, but what he needs to realise is that although I might be 54 years old I can still hold my own!
PZ: Are you looking to plant your roots in the UK?
TW: I have a big family in America. Six grandchildren and two on the way. I need my family out there and they need me, so I go back and forth and have a presence on both sides. I’ve been doing this for the last 10 years as I have a little girl who is born and bred in the UK. Next time I go back to the US I’m looking to set up a boxing and fitness centre and build it up, so that when I do go back, I have something I can look forward to. My son is a fighter also, and has a great record so far. I would like to concentrate more on his career when I get back.
PZ: Since arriving in the UK, you have done an outstanding amount for charity, especially cancer charities. Any reason why you are so committed to helping others?
TW: My mum is a preacher and she instilled charity philosophy into me from an early age. I remember her telling me from about the age of five or six years old to be generous, and she set a good example by never drinking in front of us. In fact I have never seen her drink! She used to smoke cigarettes, and up until about three years ago and decided to ask her if her lungs were ok after all these years of smoking. She said “Tim – I been smoking those cigarettes all the years, but I’ve never inhaled them!” My mum wanted to look the part, but she was no fool.
During my boxing career I had a lot of negative experiences, and during my career I saw others getting killed, getting shot, getting involved in gangs and I used to hate seeing all that. So I decided to choose another path and work my life in the other direction.
PZ: Are you involved with managing, training or promoting any fighters?
TW: Since I’ve been over here in the UK for the last 10 years, nobody has been paying me, but I have taken it upon myself to try and figure out what is wrong with boxing at present. Boxing in my opinion has reached a bit of a stagnated point in time.
I have been working with people who are looking to get into boxing, and I have been trying to hook them up with the correct promoters who would not rip them off and give them the best start. I learnt a lot from my boxing career and have a lot of knowledge and knowhow which I can pass on having gone through it the hard way. For example – for the Bruno fight I only got $95,000 whereas I was supposed to get $3 million. I decided to make it part of my mission in recent years to fight against these negative forces out there, and the boxers and promoters trust me because they know what I have been through inside and outside of the ring. They know that I stood up to the biggest promoters in boxing, and they know that I have lived the life long enough to be able to give good advice, with honesty.
Another part of boxing which really needs improving is too many promoters, trainers and managers who have never boxed in their life giving advice to boxers. Many are out to make a quick buck and really do not have the best interests or welfare of the fighter at heart. I myself have been approached and paid in the past by promoters and managers who ask me to help out with their fighters, and then tell me to do it their way……when they have never been in a ring in their life, either as trainer or a fighter! Why hire me then?!!! This leads to a lot of confusion and ultimately it’s the boxer that suffers. I know that the networks are interested to increase their viewers, but they should also be interested as to why the quality of boxing is going down.
I think that the sport should try and get all the old boxers who have retired and get them involved back into the sport. This knowledge and know how is missing in the sport today. It seems that the entertainment side of things is the most important thing and the actual boxing is not even important any more. Get the guys who have boxed involved more with commentary, journalism, and advice. Don’t leave it in the hands of ruthless business people and guys with no firsthand knowledge of boxing. These guys feel threatened by real knowledge and experience, and I sincerely believe that’s why there are so few ex boxers involved with the fundaments of the sport these days.
I have also been doing commentary, but nobody has offered me anything permanent as yet. I get the impression that if I get moved into to a commentating position, somebody else gets moved out and I’m not sure if they are ready to make that space just yet! I was supposed to commentate on the David Haye fight but that never materialised either. I’m available for commentary, and with my knowledge I would have thought somebody would pick me up, but not yet.
PZ: With the Olympics coming up, out of the British crop, who do you think could be in with a winning medal?
TW: I think Anthony Joshua is ok. They say he’s gonna be the next Mohammed Ali, but I think he has a way to go yet. The kid has potential.
PZ: Tell us more about the Larry Holmes fight, which you took on as an underdog after only 15 fights.
TW: I knew that unless I knocked him out, even if I won the fight clearly, they were never going to give it to me. He was trying to catch Rocky Marciano’s record. I never heard anybody say that they thought I had lost that fight….
I never went into that fight thinking ‘I’ll give this my best and see how it goes’, I went in thinking ‘I’m gonna whip his butt’. This was mainly because he talked down to me. He said he was going to knock me out, put me on welfare, take my girl. I think he was intimidated by this guy (me) who was coming out of nowhere and confidently challenging him for his title. His negativity inspired me even more! I fought two of his sparring partners and knocked one out and beat the other one up. I knew that if I could do that to his sparring partners I could do a good job on him.
Just to finish up on Larry – despite all that controversy, I need to stress one thing though. We remain very good friends!!
PZ: You sparred with Mohamed Ali towards the end of his career. Sparring aside – what was it like to be in his presence?
TW: It was beautiful. I didn’t really appreciate the value of being in his presence at first, and merely participating in the way he lived his life. It was a great influence to my life. I get excited just thinking how I used to chat with him, just as we are doing right now! It was simply magic. I genuinely think there are many loud mouth boxers out there today who think they are trying to be like Ali, but don’t embrace what he was really trying to achieve inside and outside of the ring. He was a great fighter and an excellent mentor.
PZ: Tell us about the moment you won the WBC crown from Greg Page.
TW: Greg Page at the time was arguing with Don King. I knew if that was the case then all I had to do was be in shape and fight him hard and I would win. Again, I got short changed on that fight also. I got around $50,000.
PZ: Was the experience more or less special when you won the WBA crown against Tubbs?
TW: Both of them were about the same as experience goes. Both myself and Tubbs and Page were in similar situation in terms of payment – we all got short changed in those fights. It was the combination of the two made it special as I became the third man in history to win the Heavyweight Boxing Championship of the World two times.
PZ: It’s 26 years this month that you beat Frank Bruno. Do you have any fond memories of the evening?
TW: It was beautiful. It was a dream to come over to the UK, defend my title and win. I couldn’t ask for anything more! I know I didn’t get the money, but there is more to life than just cash. The crowd at the fight were not so nice to me, as I was beating their hero, but once the fight was over, they were really lovely. We all partied like friends after.
What I loved about the British fans was the support for their guy. Winning or losing they give incredible support. In the US they tend to cheer you if you might make them a dollar. I was fighting a guy recently for charity here in the UK and I knocked him down twice and every time he got knocked down the fans would cheer him, in fact scream, like Vikings to get him back to his feet! The UK has some of the best fans in the world. It made this guy give the best he could. Although he knew he couldn’t beat me, the crowd gave him courage to fight with the heart of a lion.
PZ: How do you rate our current heavyweights in the UK?
TW: There seems to be a lot of people wanting to fight David Haye, but they are not getting the chance as yet. I’m not sure if David Haye will want to fight them though as he might retire. Haye is a good boxer, but I believe if he would have had somebody to guide him better he would have been able to conduct himself better throughout his career and have perhaps avoided coming out with statements about wanting to become a movie star, or even being humble in loss and not mention about his toe being hurt.
Don’t get me wrong though. I like Haye, and think he is a very good fighter, but think there’s discipline lacking in his camp. I think he should still keep Adam Booth and all his guys in his camp, but he could do with somebody to guide him to the next level.
PZ: On that subject – do you think boxing is a discipline, or a sport.
TW: It’s both. In my opinion there is a lack of people within the sport who have been there and done it, who can pass that essential knowledge down to the current and future generations, which in turn gives that fine balance between discipline and sport.
PZ: Your son Tim Witherspoon Jr is enjoying a great lightweight career. How involved are you in his training and advice?
TW: He’s a good man, so I have never had to give him advice on how to conduct his life. He’s got a great heart and an excellent role model to people inside and outside of the ring. He has one of the best defences I know, which I have taught him, and as time has gone on, his conditioning has gotten better.
PZ: Who gave you the nickname ‘Terrible’ Tim Witherspoon?
TW: A friend of mine called Eddie Burgess who lived in the same neighbourhood as me and used to come to the gym was the one who first gave me the name. I didn’t really like the name to be honest, but then when I started to spar with Mohamed Ali and he started saying, ‘Come on Terrible Tim’, I decided at that moment that if Ali was going to call me this nickname I would stick with it!
PZ: Tell the readers one thing about Terrible Tim Witherspoon that not many people know.
TW: Years ago, when I used to see certain rocks on the ground sometimes I would go back and kick them. Not superstition, more like OCD I guess! My kids saw me do it and would laugh. Its been a long time since I’ve done that, but it’s certainly a fact that not many people know about me!